Frappe Technologies
Screenshot 2023-10-25 at 10.48.41 PM.png
Odoo's marketing blitz in India
If you are living in any metro in India, you can’t miss Odoo billboards. What is Frappe / ERPNext doing about it?
author

By

Rushabh Mehta

·

30 August 2024

·

4

min read

If you are living in any metro in India, you can’t miss Odoo billboards and ads. In Mumbai, they have gone all out, with entire metro trains painted with their brand colours and billboards on several iconic junctions, including one that Mr Ambani can’t miss at Peddar Road. (Spoiler alert, that probably won’t work).

In many ways, this is not surprising. Odoo has raised close to $500M in Venture Capital, and a bunch of that capital is bound to go to a marketing blitz. I have been following Odoo for several years, since the days they were OpenERP and have seen their evolution. Fabien Pinckaers, the intrepid founder, has worn ambition on his sleeve. When they renamed to “Odoo”, he wrote in a post that companies with more “o”s are likely to be valued higher. Earlier he had picked fight with SAP by creating a campaign called SorrySAP.

While I have admired Fabien’s ambition, the product Odoo has never inspired me as much. There was time when they were clearly inspired by what we do at ERPNext, but then once they had capital, they raised their product game as well. While the Odoo conferences have become bigger money spinners with partying and free beer, the messaging has been focussed on the core product.

The biggest flip-flop on Odoo’s part was their commitment to open source. Odoo changed their license to LGPL (Lesser General Public Licence) with proprietary modules. Fabien has repeatedly said that he is able to contribute more to open source, because he has a licensed version which he can earn for. The reality is that Fabien must have found it hard to raise capital with 100% open source as the service is less defensible.

In my view, values must be followed specially when they are inconvenient, otherwise they are just for signalling. By switching to a licensed model, while keeping a basic product free, Fabien has shown that while he likes signalling open source, for him commercial success is more important.

The “expansionist” mind-set does not only show up in their marketing, but also in the business model. Odoo has over the years cannibalised its partner ecosystem by investing heavily in a services business, which is mostly run by its Indian subsidiary. Odoo partners are frustrated by this and most of them will privately complain about it. This brings us to the question why Odoo is so interested in the Indian market.

Over the past year, Fabien has been living in India and investing heavily in the Indian business. He plans to hire several thousand people and he believes in the Indian growth story. Several “influencers” have invited (or more likely, have been paid to invite) him to their podcasts, where he has been happy to stoke the egos of Indians who are hungry to hear of any success story. Fabien’s thesis is that the future belongs to India and he hopes this is where future growth for Odoo will come from. I just wished that he had a chat with Intuit, who recently shut shop in India for Quickbooks or with Mr Vembu of Zoho, who also did a blitz marketing for their accounting app. People who have been selling software products in India have always found the market to be shallow and price sensitive.

We have been watching the impact of Odoo’s marketing on the ERPNext ecosystem very closely. The impact is minimal, if any so far. ERP is not something people buy by looking at a billboard. ERPs require a big organisational shift, a rethinking of the company’s operations and a whole lot of consultants to help in the journey. I am sure a lot of people would have tried Odoo, but it is unlikely they are going to stay. People don’t just buy a product, they buy an ecosystem.

A company that is spending millions of dollars in marketing will have to recover the money from its customers, sooner or later. Companies selling software to small businesses have learnt through the years that they are extremely cost sensitive. This is why we believe that the story is yet to play out. Our focus on ERPNext is to focus on profitable and sustainable growth, keeping our costs low so that our customers can benefit in the end. Unlike capital intensive businesses, there is not a lot of capital that goes into making software so the idea of “economies of scale” does not have a lot of impact.

One of the downsides of Odoo’s bait-and-switch to proprietary software is that people often ask us at Frappe if we will also do the same. On principle I think this is a wrong question to ask. While we have no intention of going proprietary or becoming a “unicorn”, I tell people that this is our prerogative. To pre-empt any such decision, we have shared our copyright with all our contributors, so even if there is a decision like this, we will have to get consent from everyone.

As a competitor, I am not afraid of Odoo at all. The more cash they burn, the bigger hole they are going to find themselves in. Our strategy is going to be to beat them at product and ecosystem. Be the proverbial tortoise to Odoo's hare. Since we have zeroed in on Frappe Cloud as our business model, we have found a good fit with our partners and we are committed to grow our partner ecosystem. Our customers don’t have to pay per-user license fees and partners get a solid and reliable hosting platform for their customers.

In my opinion, Fabien would have been better off using India as a development back-office rather than trying to win the market. In either case, we are more than ready for the competition and welcome it, as any competition benefits the consumer. When people ask me “Odoo is ramping up marketing in India, what are you guys doing?”. My immediate answer is “So did Byju’s, let’s wait and watch”

Published by

Rushabh Mehta

on

30 August 2024
15

Share

Add your comment

Success!

Error

Comments

L
Laurent Destailleur

· 

September 29, 2024

Hi Rushabh, Thanks for you commitment in Open Source and your Product ERPNext. i am the lead developer of Dolibarr ERP CRM and I like ERPNext and I like Odoo, even if recommend them for different cases and even if i was seriously disappointed by an event when i was an Odoo integrator when hundred of customers were blocked due to a bug into the licence server hosted in Odoo during several days, when we try to promote Open Source :-( I think Fabien was right when he said he had to switch its business model to make more money... to then, contribute more to Open Source. I trust him when he say it was necessary for Odoo. But i also think it does not mean it is necessary for all projects. At Dolibarr we dont have the same difficulty than at Odoo because we are a full community project, so we don't need to be profitable when cash is low, because we spent nothing in payroll. I understand Odoo when this was the case and if this saved the project, we can say it was a good choice. At ERPNet, you are probably in a similar situation than Odoo, in the sense that you have a company and need to earn enough to be profitable. But the date differs. And, may be, if Odoo was now in the situation of 2014, may be Fabien would not have to switch because it should be easier now. Nobody will know. So different time, different direction. I won't say that Fabien is wrong. i would say "Let's wait" and if one day Odoo become back full Open source then i will say he was completely right (if we reach this day, it means that profits will be generated by something else than licenses, like Saas hosting, otherwise, the paradigm "More money = More contribution to Open source" will remain a reason to stay OpenCore). For me this is also a personal choice on how we want to do Open Source (it is bad in a way, but may also be good in another way). Honestly i can't say if it is more good or bad without having all performance key indicators of the company. So why not. At Dolibarr, we choosed to keep the project a full community project, so no company behind, or if you prefer thousands of companies behind, but all at the same level/position.

I really think ERPNext can take another direction, different than Odoo and also different than Dolibarr, because the area differs (in Europe and US, companies was thinking we have to pay high to have a very good software, so they pay high, this is why SAP and Oracle grows so much even if product are heavy). Is it the same in India ? Also the time is different, and this way of thinking started to disappear (at least in Europe) with the grows of quality Open source solutions. So you can try differently (i hope you will try differently, but i don't think the way Odoo tried was wrong, it is just another strategy). So I wish you good luck with ERPNext and may be can speak each other one day...

As we say in France, Vive ErpNext, Vive Odoo, Vive Dolibarr !

N
Nityananda Rao

· 

September 2, 2024

Rushabh, one of the point that I tell many customers and investors is, "India can afford to have another 10 SAP type of ERP products and business and everyone can make money". I go with the same statement for all ERP providers as we compete with SAPB1, TCS iOn, Odoo etc.

Indian customers are very price sensitive. But they are also value seekers. If you provide value at higher price, they would buy it. I have seen this change in last 5 years. Now, we see customers are slowly migrating from BRAND products to "user friendly" ones.

Zoho and Odoo advertisements will help many NEW customers to try and see the results themselves and decide later. This helps Indian ERP market.

I have the feeling that many of them moving out of it soon (2 years timeframe), as Indian customers are very particular about what they want..

N
Navneet

· 

September 1, 2024

It looks like you found an easy way to defend yourself or i would say the low growth rate of frappe. We all are very well aware that you have built an amazing product. But don’t you think that is not the only thing to build a successful business. Unless you say frappe is a foundation. Odoo just copied frappe and become much more bigger. Rather than just complaining about what wrong they are doing, it’s better that we focus on how we can make ourselves better. I say we because i belong to frappe community. I feel bad that people don’t even know about frappe and this is because we have failed in it’s branding and marketing. Let’s just accept that.

A
Ahmed Alsahly

· 

September 1, 2024

Well put Rushabh. Indeed, "values must be followed specially when they are inconvenient". The Frappe Framework and ERPNext business model are remarkable. Being open-source encourages a collaborative community, leading to ongoing innovation and enhancements. Time will prove this model to be successful!

P
Pankaj

· 

August 31, 2024

I have a weighted interest in favor of ERPNext. And choose to go with Rushabh. It does matter to either Rushabh or Fabien today. It will matter soon

H
Husen Daudi

· 

August 31, 2024

This is getting viral since morning. Everyone has their own perspective, As an Odoo and ERPNext partner I have experienced both the products, partnership model and customers feedback and The reality is odoo is getting 500 + new Enterprise customers every month in India. Number of partners and service providers of odoo are highest in India. Principal company headquarters are the globally compare to other open source products and community. India roadshows are getting 3000+ registrations and having 500+ attendees which is huge. We have experienced big change in direct leads and inquiries ourself. The conclusion is people know Odoo as a brand from small street vendor to big Corporate and public sectors and that is all because of those marketing campaigns. Its easy to sale and introduce Odoo to customers as they quickly recognise the brand logo.

F
Fabien Pinckaers

· 

August 31, 2024

You are so wrong about eveything, let's check the fact: - Frappe raised more money than Odoo over the past 9 years - Odoo only raised 11m$, not 500m$ - 10 years ago. So, it's not VC money - Marketing does not costs to users: our investments in India is 0.2% of our global revenues. It's not like we are over-spending. - 98% of services revenues on Odoo are done by partners, and only 13% of Odoo revenues come from service. We are not eating partners market: we are actually growing their market - Odoo can afford marketing, because we have millions of paying users. We have users because we built the best product (unfortunately, open source is a winners take all market), not because we raised money

We both want to contribute to open source. But our strategy is different; - your goal is to avoid proprietary - 100% open source - Odoo's goal is to contribute more to open source

As a result, Frappe invests 100% of it's ~500k$ R&D budget to develop open source, Odoo invests 80% of it's 100m€ R&D budget to develop open source.

Odoo used to have the same model of Frappe a few years ago, until I understood that the best way to contribute more to open source is to have a sustained source of revenues, to pay more developers. What matters is not claiming you are more open source, but how much you contribute.

K
Kanhaiya Kale

· 

August 31, 2024

Great stuff, Rushabh! You've skillfully told the story of a balloon that's expanding as it takes in more air, growing into a large balloon. Only time will reveal the balloon's ultimate fate. Destiny will unfold with each breath of air.

D
Devendra kavthekar

· 

August 31, 2024

It will be interesting to see how this competition plays out, especially for end users who will benefit from more choices in the market. Looking forward to seeing how both ecosystems evolve.

S
Siddhartha Shankar

· 

August 31, 2024

Odoo is on a fail-fast track for sure. ERP business is all about an ecosystem which is sustainable for at least 20-30 years. It’s driven by customers, not by developers.

K
Kitti Upariphutthiphong

· 

August 30, 2024

Odoo commercial strategy is pushing good "service" companies out and welcome good "sales" companies in. While the later often leave failed projects to customer, bad reputation will spread. We believe that in ERP business, the good service and stable product is the key for success than fancy marketing strategy.

P
Patrick Willy

· 

August 30, 2024

Thank you for the reminder that a big marketing push today often means a larger bill to pay down the road. ERPNext/Frappe is clearly focused on sustainable growth and keeping costs low to pass on those savings to customers. The long game (Marathon) is where you thrive.

C
CA. B.C.Chechani

· 

August 30, 2024

Here's a comment you could consider:

Rushabh, your insights resonate deeply, especially in highlighting the contrast between Odoo's capital-driven approach and ERPNext's commitment to sustainable, open-source growth. It's refreshing to see a focus on values and the long-term benefits of community-driven development.

M
Mradul Mishra

· 

August 30, 2024

I agree indian market is very cost sensitive. And ultimately odoo will recover this money from there user’s.

Sagar Godbole Godbole

· 

August 30, 2024

Well said Rushabh ! We get asked by prospects all the time on "How long ERPNext will be Open Source". We try and explain Frappe revenue model with Cloud to them and in most cases its combination of Partner + Frappe which is a key decision parameter. More power to Frappe !

Discussion

image7f7d4e.png

Paul Mugambi

·

3 days

ago

Beautiful read, and an insight into an individual I respect and have learned a lot from. Am inspired to trust the process and never give up.

image4c43d6.png

Anna Dane

·

5 days

ago

I must say this is a really amazing post, and for some of my friends who provide Best British Assignment Help, I must recommend this post to them.

Add your comment

Comment