Hi @UmairSayed Sorry to say this but you replied very well with diplomatic answers & thats not I expected.

Just a fact, You clearly mentioned that “We shall reach you soon to take this forward.” But the fact is it’s been 10 Days & nobody from Frappe contacted us via Email, Chat, Call to even listen & answer with responsibility on our concerns. At least I can expect the unknown account manager to contact me but unfortunately I had to reach you again on Public Platform only. So i think i have strongly proved my point here that Frappe is least bothered about Entry Level Partners to solve their Challenges.

Being an dedicated partner for selling only 100% Frappe Products I had already tried my level best to contribute & explain every fact with figures as important concern with logical, sensible problem & feedbacks in details into previous comments, emails to your team with the positive intention to help Improve, grow Frappe as Indian Company, Community but i still didn’t get any concrete positive justification, solutions or even a proper call to just listen & understand carefully. My focus into this discussion had always specifically being an Entry Level Partner and not Top Level Partners so with due respect I will ignore their comments / experiences shared because I am not talking for Top Level Partners concerns & I am not Top Level Partner so whatever they are sharing is not relevant for Existing Entry Level Partners because frappe itself had kept the Entry level partners intentionally different from the Top Partners list to a complete different page and they are suffering, delisted from the partners list not Top Level Partners.

To precisely answer your previous response 1. Frappe can’t standardise, policies Pricing for Open Source Product but definitely for Implementations for which we become Partners under Slabs which are profitable for Entry Level Partners too minimum at-least 5 Lakhs for vanilla version so that we can strongly demand base price from clients in competition with Frappe Partners within Community itself, Freelancers, Non certified companies to earn sustainable profits otherwise how do we forecast the business if we don’t even know the base price of the offering. Frappe has a fix price for all offerings like hosting, support, certifications etc then why cant partners have ? 2. It’s not only Partners Skills, Strategies, Target Market, Quality of Service, Merits and Abilities what matter it is also applicable for Company for whom we are partners because when partner is selling Frappe products then what Frappe is doing to help them tackle Challenges is what matters. You cant expect to get everything done from partners itself without giving your involvement. Not even sales executive does it so it’s that Simple! 3. For Certification we clearly didn’t ask you to break any policy, do any adjustments against anything wrong and we have valid email communication for the same. We asked to add existing certified resource under our company to complete our company certification in which the resource was also willing to allocate his name under our company but you intentionally denied. We requested you but you neglected us asking to train a new resources, get him certified and then use him but we didn’t had that much of time but you didn’t cooperated. Due to which we lost the a good business in fact 10-12 sites and you knew it. Frappe had changed the policies, business terms, partners terms multiple times and also help top level partners to share leads without any standard methods, can you publicly share the terms, mechanism on how you allocate the leads to top partners under what company SOP’s Parameters because we are unknown as Entry Level Partners and we have noticed many leads going to specific companies only. 4. As you mentioned “the call for de-listing was taken democratically in the Frappe Partners’ Council” then can you answer how many % of partners where available from all and how many of them were Entry Level Partners who accepted this decision? Where is the Minutes of the meeting approved by all partners when you are counting us on 3 months prior notice? Why didn’t the council took any approvals from all the Entry Level Partners before starting 3 month notice? Why out of 100 even at-least 10-20 Entry Level Partners couldn’t get certified in between 3 months of notice until now? 5. Talking about our Business Model then it doesn’t matter what Business Model we have unless Frappe has some concrete Business Model for Partners because eventually we are Frappe Partners & working under Frappe Guidelines for selling Frappe Products.

Even after having willingness of continuing for Being Partner with Frappe to grow as Indian company but because of no active communication, not responsible head for Entry level Partners Concerns to address their challenges and Not supporting into any expected activities like mentioned below we are planning not to continue & not to suffer the Frappe Partnership anymore because eventually the Product is OpenSource, we can anyway offer ERPNext to anyone, host anywhere and Frappe is also not helping Precisely to Entry Level Partners (Not Top / Old Partners) because for Entry Level Partners their is

1. No Leads Sharing (Not enterprises but at-least for small companies / clients below 50 users)
2. No Dedicated Partner Allocation to each Client Hosted on ERPNext / Frappe Cloud which definitely helps in multiple ways to Entry Level Partners & also builds trust on Product and Company.
3. No Responsible team or Support dedicated to work with Entry Level Partners for Onboarding Clients which helps for any major Custom Development Projects, Sharing Quotations, Attending Client Meetings, etc
4. No Online Marketing & Sales Activities Support (Not just Trainings but Frappe doing Paid Promotions / Campaigns like competitors companies to build awareness & trust in the market)
5. No Account or Partner Manager who regularly communicates with responsibility under certain fixed SOP whereas you have 100% Prompt & Active Audit System to Immediately Delist Entry Level Partners.
6. No Exclusive Support for Partners on Frappe Cloud any Plans.
7. No Concrete Business Process, System, Mentoring and support on Multiple Frappe Products with a commercial and business mindset to fight with Freelancers, Non Partners Companies.
8. No Proper, Detailed Organised Clients / Case Studies Directory Online of 10000+ Customers (as mentioned on website) to convince new customers showing previous clients / case studies matching their industry and problems to build trust in competition with other competitors.
9. Not investing for onboarding right, experienced people who has complete Business & Commercial Mindset build with previous experience after working from any competitors business (Precisely not just Tally) to help Entry Level Partners build positions in such competitive Market.
10. Not investing for Offline Promotions in local events in tier 2-3 cities / Banners / Business exhibitions for getting trust in market & helping partners get more clients. Example Automation Expo 2024 happened last month in Mumbai had thousands of companies who could be Frappe Potential Customers.

Now if you simply neglect saying that because the product is open source and Frappe don’t do all above activities & we are not responsible then I wonder why to Pay 1 Lakh for Frappe Entry Level Partnership in comparison with competitors when they are charging less and doing all the above activities for partners? Just to see the company name into Entry level partners page as Non Certified & to get insulted after doing marketing expenses efforts which will eventually help Top Partners Only to get leads or to get x% on Cloud hosting which is not the primary partnership purpose or even need because anyone can work on OpenSource Products by hosting anywhere without Certification like other Non Partner companies actually doing. In fact the Pricing is so high for Dedicated Server that I guess that is the reason why SME Clients prefer to host on private servers. For Frappe Cloud you want the best margins by offering higher price similarly the Entry Level Partners also want the value for money and efforts taken.

Then what is the Return on Investment, Return on Efforts, value generation of being Entry Level Partner? Just to get training and certification which is not even a client demand? Certification Maters mostly for License Products not for Open Source which is already free for all. Training can be taken online for free like Freelancers, Non Partner companies are already doing business without Certifications. At least after paying 1 Lakh Entry Level Partners should get Prompt Attention, Responsible Communication, Constant Leads and a Respectful Name on Partners page.

Think with the logic will the Frappe Team Happily Contribute if all Frappe employees names are also listed on Website Teams Page with how they are performing, are they completing targets, are they certified or not, are they matured to work or not like you put for Entry Level Partners with Certified, Matured level publicly after taking Partnership fees because Employees and Partners both are Frappe Army to fight for One Vision and Mission in the Market. Don’t you think fundamentally this is wrong with Entry Level Partners?

Also, I am sure that New / Existing Entry Level Partners are already making wise decisions to Join / Continue Partnership or Not which it is actually reflecting into Entry Level Partners list because after delisting 100+ companies you have the same count of partners in Entry Level since 31st July 2024 with total partners count below 100 wherein competitors like Odoo have already engaged 600+ partners from January 2024. Obviously there is something which you are not ready to see, understand, accept and change which is why Frappe is not growing to the speed of light in competition.

Even now if you think i am talking nonsense and everything is Perfect with Frappe Business Model, Entry Level Partners than i think there is no scope for this initiative of discussion. Let the market give answers. I just hope that this discussion should be an eye opener realisation moment for you being VP - Partnerships!

I am extremely sorry if I am being very rude & straight forward with facts and figures, suggestions, feedbacks sharing publicly but that was the only way left to communicate because now I have lost my trust on Frappe being Entry Level Partner. I have also realised that I have wasted my money, time, energy & resources until now after being 100% Honest, Transparent, Dedicated Frappe Entry Level Partner who only focused to Promote, Sell only Frappe Products in simple expectation that I will get 100% Partnership support in return from Frappe. But, I still believe the Frappe Products are worlds best open source and will be going to add massive value to businesses as customers.

I hope this message will change something positive for Existing & Upcoming Entry Level Partners if there is a serious Intention & Interest. All the Best !

Hi everyone,

I wanted to share my perspective as a Frappe Partner, reflecting on my journey and experiences. Today, I lead a company that has successfully implemented over 80 projects, ranging from subcontracting to end-to-end ERPNext deployments. We've grown from a small team to multiple offices across India, and this progress would not have been possible without the support and ecosystem provided by Frappe.

When I started, I had no background in software or development. My journey with Frappe began when I was looking for a solution to streamline operations in a manufacturing setup. After discovering ERPNext and the Frappe framework, I decided to dive in, despite the challenges. The flexibility, openness, and community-driven nature of Frappe allowed me to learn, adapt, and eventually master the platform.

Over the years, Frappe has been more than just a technology provider; it has been a partner in my growth. Yes, there have been challenges, but with every challenge came an opportunity to learn and innovate. The community, the resources, and the openness of the platform have enabled us to not only overcome these challenges but also to thrive.

Regarding the concerns raised about partner support and profitability, I understand that every partner's journey is different. For us, the key has been focusing on the value we provide to our clients rather than just the financial aspect. We've embraced a model where we focus on delivering results first and getting paid later, which has built tremendous trust with our clients. This approach has been made possible largely due to the confidence we have in Frappe's capabilities.

I believe that the success of any partnership lies in mutual growth. While Frappe provides the tools and platform, it's up to us as partners to leverage them effectively, innovate, and create value. The market is indeed competitive, but the flexibility and customization that Frappe offers give us an edge that other platforms may not.

To all the partners who might be struggling, I would encourage you to engage more with the community, share your challenges openly, and collaborate on solutions. Frappe's ecosystem is vast, and there’s always someone who has faced similar challenges and can offer insights.

Finally, I want to express my gratitude to the Frappe team for creating a platform that has allowed me and my team to grow and succeed. We’re all in this together, and by continuing to support and learn from each other, I believe we can all find sustainable success.

@Kanhaiya and @Deepanker, thanks for the kind words.

@Nikkhil

For the pricing, it being a FOSS product, standardising implementation pricing isn’t practical. If at all we decide to standardize, who would do the policising? With FOSS product, the luxury of custom pricing comes handy. I believe the challenge you are stuck with is related to strategy about target market and pricing. I have seen partners starting with small customers and scaling pricing for mid and enterprise customers. There are partners who doesn’t charge less than 10 laksh to customer. Eventually, it comes to partners skill of showcasing differentiating in quality of service, holding the price and converting customers. It all depends on the merit. I will be glad to offer a separate along with PM for some constructive discussion on this.

For the suggestions on listing names etc., we shall review internally for the feasibility. However, certification is non-negotiable in the interest of quality. I presume that’s the exception you reached-out to me for. Hope you will understand, such adjustments aren’t fair to others partners who adhered. Since you mentioned, the call for de-listing was taken democratically in the Frappe Partners’ Council. Also, partners were given ~3 months and communited about it. I suggest giving certification a highest priority. In general, partners with two consultants are able to track it within 2-3 weeks as they beging journey with Frappe. Your point on betterment of communication with PM is well taken.

Regrading Frappe’s support on pre-sales, we are pretty much open to assist partners. I learnt Frappe team joining on the pre-sales calls earlier. IMO, let’s discuss about your business model. Once this is sorted, we can scale-up on this pre-sales support as a team. We shall reach you soon to take this forward.

@UmairSayed Thank you so much for responding promptly on public platform to address my concerns. I am sorry if my comment isn't positive or as expected but I commented with actual experiences and facts after being a Partner in Frappe.

I had also expressed my concerns previously with Frappe Team verbally and on the emails with expectations for any concrete solutions but they are simply ignored. Precisely I can share the details over the email for the communication record’s. I am sharing here again some primary experiences & concerns so that I can prove for why I am being negative on this post with my comments.

1. I suggested to keep Standard Costs for Vanilla Implementation with various facts, reasons & the cost should be higher than 5 Lakhs at-least for all Partners similar as Frappe Cloud has standard Pricing which helps convert clients easily and faster otherwise its a firefighting and war situation within the partners in which clients take advantage to negotiate more & spend less then the actual deserving project cost without comparing partners on experienced team, service quality but just on pricing. Only few top partners are getting business because of previous clients base, settled team or leads generated or by selling other products like Tally. Independently entry level partner who are fully dedicated to offer Frappe Products cant survive as company by offering implementations below 5 Lakh in competition with Top Partners, Freelancers & Non Partner Companies. We as Certified Partners don’t have advantage to control and lock the customers for concrete business growth. Eventually we had to offer Projects at negative margins to sustain in market which will also not helping to retain for Frappe Partnership. I see some pricing structure is released starting at 50k but that is not going to make any major difference, good margins, scaling or even to achieve breakeven for entry level partners in my experience. How to compete with non certified freelancers / partners in the market if there is no product or pricing control because giving random implementation costs in competition with frappe partners itself is not helping frappe to win as community. One partner is offering 10 Lakhs, another offering 5 Lakhs, third freelancer offering 1.5 Lakh for same work is unpredictable business model. Obviously the client either chose 10 lakh because of being Top Partner or Large team, previous big project experience or it will get it done with 1.5 Lakh from freelancer or a local none partner company then what is the benefit of being Enter Level Certified Partner if we are loosing in the Middle. There has to be some Strict base Pricing, Systems, Processes Exclusive Only for Partners which will help entry level initial partners to stop constant negotiations with customers and avoid delays in client onboarding otherwise clients take advantage of competition in market. And that is where frappe needs to have Strong Business Model for all types of partners in comparison with Competitors.

2. I suggested to change the Partners Page Structure and Remove the Tag as “ENTRY LEVEL PARTNERS”. Keep it in simple listing like other competitors with some positive category name like “READY” and not “ENTRY” Level Partners in some corner that to in a very small button which is actually not easily visible to visitors and that to is redirecting to a complete different page which is creating a complete different prospective / mindset for the customers who are looking for trusted partners. If entry level people are kept separately than obviously customers think they are not capable to handle ERP implementations because frappe itself has mentioned as Entry level and also displayed who is certified or not with maturity is actually not required for the clients. It feels insulting to show the page or ask customers to even visit the page because it actually discourages the customers. Entry word itself indicates Freshers so why will any reputed company will take risk to spend 5-10 Lakhs for ERP Implementation looking at the word Entry Level even after the Entry Level Partner is spending all resources on Marketing & Sales.

3. We did Social Media Marketings, Paid Promotions, Webinars, Email marketing, Tele-calling and much more for lead generation but after spending so much when the customers visit partners page they actually prefer to approach the Top Partners because we are listed into “ENTRY” Level Partners which becomes waste of marketing investment for us. In my experience indirectly the entry level partners promotions and marketing activities are helping top partners to get projects & maybe due to which only as you can see after delisting almost 100 entry level partners frappe left with 35-40 entry level partners on 31st July and today 1st September the Entry Level Partners count is Still the Same. Maybe whatever I am trying to convey is the reason why the entry level partners count is not increased yet.

4. Frappe is forcing Entry Level Partners to get quickly certified, improve maturity level, get more clients and get listed into top Partners but that is not so easy & fast for entry level partners. Because, I think Entry Levels Partners priority should be leads generation, marketing, sales conversion as of now where we need frappe to help us & not just operations which can be done internally with Partners Tieup within the Community. Getting good resources to train for Certifications, Hiring Experience and Expensive Functional Consultants / Developers into such competitive market is very tuff which we all know. Every partner knows that there are less people to hire as ERP Consultants with knowledge of all domains modules skillsets & it takes years to get a good resources trained on multiple projects but Frappe condition is if we don’t have such certified people then we are delisted. A Certified Experienced Functional Consultant/Developer charges Min. 50-100k per month who works for averagely 3 months on each project and client then pays below 2-3 Lakhs for implementation because we are entry level partners then again frappe forcing us to get Certified hiring more people is not making any win win partnership or business. My concern is why frappe is not understanding this gap for entry level partners in-fact Frappe delisted our company because some day few partners took decision without discussing if that is as right or wrong to all partners individually but just because of No Certification done yet which is least bothered to any client we are delisted. We have also paid for Partnership like others did who took that decision than why did anyone communicated us that some partners have taken such decision so what is your view on it? It this fear with us or all Partners? Also. It’s not that only Certified Frappe Partners are allowed to sell ERPNext. So many other Freelancers, Non Certified partners are making more business than Listed Partners which clearly proves having certifications done does not matter to clients for OpenSource Products so definitely the ground reality is different.

5. My account manager never contacted me to understand the my challenges rather we get an email saying complete certification or you will be delisted, Is this the way to deal with entry level partners?. I don’t even know exactly the name of my Account Manager. I don't think OEM works like this because my experience with other OEM is different & Productive.

6. I suggested frappe must focus to help Entry Level Partner bring more sales with Marketing Involvement which will eventually bring clients, certified teams, case studies for partners as well as cloud hosting for frappe. But in my experience Frappe never ever thought about sharing a single lead to Entry Level Partners and help them into Marketing activities & not just training but like other Competitors are doing today in such competitive market then only New Partners will survive but Frappe is more interested to share leads only with Top Partners who are actually settled and actually don’t need leads to that intensity which an entry level partners need because they already have build networks, teams, case studies into market so they can easily get leads. I feel this is not fear with Entry Level Partners in-fact entry level partners must be shared with regular & active leads to learn, implement & experience faster with the help of Frappe Team then only they will become confident with the Product, Community, Implementations & will be ready to invest more in future teams, promotions, partnerships.

7. Being an entry level partner we didn’t received the technical support as expected from Frappe because we had generated an Enterprise Client lead which had 500+ Users which could be more then 20-30 Lakh Project & Frappe Team also had attended the primacy requirement gathering calls but later they simply left us alone and we lost that project. You can check our communication records with your team and the client was Ampcus from Nashik who wanted extensive HRMS Solution. Eventually they opted another software & we lost the business because of no concrete support from Frappe Team wherein if we could have closed that deal we could have contributed Frappe with once of the Enterprise client with Top Package of Frappe Cloud Billing and we could have also got an opportunity to grown into Partnerships level as per Frappe is expecting.

8. Sorry to share this but, In one circumstances even you didn’t cooperated for a temporary adjustment being a partner due to which we had to lost 10-12 self generated projects leads which are generated after spending extensive funds, time, energy, resources on trust with frappe that we will get support but It didn’t worked & we faced losses again. I completely understand your decision because we were just an Entry Level Partners who are not contributing much to frappe like top partners. Being in partnership we believed that we should have an understanding to cooperate each other on such event with long term commitments like @Kanhaiya Kale expressed how he had been cooperating frappe challenging journey since his inception which is truly appreciating.

Out of our personal experience until now after working full heartedly with Frappe under 100% dedication until now I strongly believe that All Frappe Products are the best in the world but as Company I am not satisfied being an Entry Level Partner after paying the demanded fees because I personally see a lot of Standard Practices, Process, Systems, Market Understanding, Decision Making relevant to Partners Business Model which I feel maybe they are missing or it is their but it is not helping us to grow along with the company today.

I also understand that you or maybe others might not like my replies, concerns, suggestions, feedbacks posted publicly but honestly I am frustrated to deal with these challenges alone after spending everything needed to selling frappe products because we call ourselves as partners, community but my company is firefighting alone in competition with other partners itself & not getting any help from Frappe as expected which is why I am expressing it here now because no one entertained me on the right time with the right Process/System.

Maybe my experience could be different from other partners which i Agree & Appreciate!. I may become a negative commenter because I just expressed the facts with my experience like @Kanhaiya Kale but if my concerns are logical, making any sense and if any other partners are facing similar challenges then this is something needs to be discussed. I also believe that this is what a customer oriented company needs to grow for a company. Unless a company doesn’t acknowledge such suggestions / feedbacks on public forums then how will it grow. And as you said "Customers (they matter the most)" then I believe that a Partner is also a kind of customer for a Company so I hope you will take my comments positively.

Also, I respect all your justification and answers given into previous comment but practically after investing our company with 100% Dedication to only sale Frappe Product with full time dedication, efforts, team, resources, funds being a genuine partner its not working for us to grow with the company. Also, I genuinely expected this communication should have been done positively & privately but thank you for allowing me to expense myself on public forum. Thank you for inviting to frappe-verse but we had been a part of frappe-verse 2023 already to interact & learn in Mumbai.

Also, I shared my concerns in so much details just to justify myself why I posted my first comment & I genuinely hope Frappe takes my comments with positive Approach and help more entry level partners to avoid such experiences. Maybe if any of my concerns helps Frappe to understand & realise what challenges an entry level partner is facing then my purpose is resolved.

@Kanhaiya Kale Thank you for taking your involvement and sharing your insights with your experiences. I hope you understand that I did the same to express our experiences ! :)

All the best! Thank you

Hi Nikkhil, I completely agree that partners are crucial stakeholders in any ecosystem and should be valued and supported by the OEM. I've closely followed Frappe's journey and the evolution of their Partner Model. The ERPNext ecosystem has benefited from this model, which offers unparalleled support from the Frappe Team. While we can't expect the OEM to proactively guide each partner on every aspect, including Sales, Marketing, Operations, and Support, the resources they provide have been invaluable in educating our customers and supporting our systems. I've witnessed Frappe's business model transition from SaaS to Implementation services, Priority/Enterprise Support, and finally, Frappe Cloud. I recall discussing Frappe Cloud with Rushabh when the idea was still in its infancy. After months of brainstorming, Frappe Cloud was launched, addressing our struggles with hosting platforms, DevOps, and infrastructure challenges. We previously hosted on various clouds, including Hetzner, Digital Ocean, Online.net, AWS and Google Cloud. We used to allow customers for On-Premise servers too over these other clouds but faced issues like data loss and poor support. Frappe Cloud has simplified our lives, allowing us to easily host and manage sites. We've migrated over 70 sites to Frappe Cloud in the first year itself, now hosting 200-250+ sites, including UAT environments. My partner, Gupteshwar, can attest to the reduced complexity. The partner model has evolved significantly, benefiting many partners. I recommend connecting with the partner manager for guidance, as they'll be familiar with the policies designed to enhance the partnership model. Feel free to reach out to me if you need any support or assistance.

Hi Umair, we were also part of this challenging journey. We struggled with our offerings, having our own product stack and ERPNext services. After a long struggle, we made the tough decision to discontinue our product vertical and focus solely on ERPNext services. Around the same time, OEM and we, as partners, worked closely together, receiving feedback and comments from various customers. This collaboration helped us make some difficult decisions, including our choice to continue with ERPNext. Of course, there were also underlying factors that led us to focus exclusively on fully open-source ERP solutions. It's great to see a flashback of Frappe's business model journey, which I've been following closely.

Great read, and an amazing intent in building erpnext and the business model. It's a great service to remove the per user fees. ERPNEXT can be the next tally in India in terms of penetration.

Hoping the implementation cost will go down as the ecosystem grows.

Hi Umair, This sounds Great only for Frappe but really not for Partners in-fact you mentioned very less about how Partners are growing and what future they can see with Frappe.

This clearly shows why there is a reason only limited Partners are hosting on frappe cloud but not All. Being a Partner we personally shared our experiences, challenges, feedbacks multiple times after huge investment into every possible activity like marketing but not even a single person from Frappe took interest or guided us but they simply ignored rather delisted 50%+ Partners from the Partners list for a silly reason after taking Partnership Fees which is almost 3 times higher then Odoo which I think offers much more benefits and commitments to partners than what Frappe Promised. I think fundamentally all this business model will work in the long term only if you listen to the Partners & make some value & at-least sustainable profits for Partners because Partners are going to be the backbone, frontend for this business model as a Sales and Marketing Engine because Frappe is neither taking Marketing Initiatives for its Products like other competitors in such competitive market nor they take involvement into implementations as you mentioned.

I suggest Frappe should seriously think and invest into Partners first and help them how they can earn profits but not just Frappe by study the business models of competitors or hiring the best talent from competitors. I came up with such harsh feedback comment because Yes! Majority of the Partners are Bleeding, Struggling for survive to generate Profits and I am one of them but Frappe is not taking serious involvements into it. As Robert said stay connected with Users & Partners & don't stop communicating otherwise everyone has their choices & alternatives.

Hi Umair, having followed the winding and hilly road to success during 14 years now I have read your nice article with great interest. Clear story. Also glad you finally found the golden egg. One comment, however. Make sure that you do not loose touch with the users. The feedback from them is required to improve your ecosystem of product. In this regard: I have a communicated several times suggestions for small UI improvements. If such suggestions are ignored one tends to stop communicating. Keep a few selected customers to fully service a stay connected to user issues.